An Open Letter to My Queer Friends

[Olbermann]

An Open Letter to My Queer Friends

By Pastor Dan

Mon Oct 29, 2007 at 09:00:08 PM PDT

Dear Friends:
I tried to defend - or at least re contextualize Barack Obama's association with Donnie McClurkin (http://www.streetprophets.com/storyonly/2007/10/26/222338/77) the other day, but the latest revelations are just too much (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/29/obama-supporter-god-delivered-me-from-homosexuality/). Clearly, Obama has thrown his lot in with defending a bigoted fathead. I kept hoping that he would take the appropriate steps to distance himself from said bigoted fathead, without much luck. If anything, he's even more tightly wrapped up in McClurkin now.

Plenty of people have weighed in on the politics of the situation already, probably much better than I could. If you're really curious, you can read my take on it here (http://www.streetprophets.com/comments/2007/10/29/174651/99/7#c7).

But there is more to be said about this than political commentary. As an ordained minister in and on behalf of the universal church of Jesus Christ, I feel compelled to tell you that Donnie McClurkin is absolutely and fundamentally wrong. There is no such thing as "God's way" as opposed to the "homosexual lifestyle."

There is no straight "us" vs. queer "them". There are only us in Christ, a universal offer of grace and redemption.

Paul said (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=60694822):
We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have obtained access to this grace in which we stand; and we boast in our hope of sharing the glory of God. For if while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more surely, having been reconciled, will we be saved by his life. But more than that, we even boast in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

In the sacrificial death and resurrection of God's only begotten Son, the human conflict with God has been brought to an end, and the enemies reconciled to one another. The good news of Jesus Christ is that we are already saved, without condition or revocation.
Therefore;

“There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do: by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and to deal with sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, so that the just requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."


"For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For this reason the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law—indeed it cannot, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.”

This is often taken as a treatise on "carnality," which is to say, sexual sin. In fact, it is often used to oppress just such people as you in the way that McClurkin does, by portraying homosexuality as nothing more than selfish physical gratification at best and outright victimization at worst.

However, there are two things you should know about this.


The first is that "the flesh" here means selfishness, period. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it. If you take advantage of other people and live without regard to their needs, then you live according to the way of death.

But if you live in love and generosity, then you live according to the Spirit. It's really that simple. Paul apparently thought of homosexual practice as a reflection of selfishness - he had no frame of reference for understanding sexual orientation or the mutual equality of committed partners - but our understanding has changed. His basic point, however, stands: because the God of Christ is characterized by self-giving, those who are self-seeking cannot be in right relationship with that God.

Furthermore, because the promise of salvation in Christ is universal, there is no hierarchy to it, either we are all saved, or we are all cursed, equally. For this reason Paul could again say (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=60713209):

There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to the promise.

He might as well have said "there is no longer gay or straight." Those who belong to Christ are those who have accepted the promise of salvation and live in the way of the Spirit. They have become God's beloved children, and they have nothing to fear in the judgment (http://bible.oremus.org/?ql=60714095):

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God. For you did not receive a spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received a spirit of adoption. When we cry, ‘Abba! Father!’ it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ—if, in fact, we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.

You, my friends, have been adopted by God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. So have I. So has everyone else in the entire world. But you, like us, have every right to cry out to God: "Daddy!" And you, like us, are called to stand with and suffer for the poor, the powerless, the lowly and the despised. This is your birthright, and no bigot can take it away from you.

It might be properly objected here that I am only one pastor from a relatively obscure tradition facing up against a tradition that is overwhelmingly hostile to gays and lesbians. That may very well be the case. There are probably more Christians like myself than you might suppose, but nevertheless, some days it seems like Donnie McClurkin is more representative of the Christian faith than I am. So be it.

All I can tell you is the tradition as I understand it. Which is to say, to offer you the grace that I know in the way that best fits the situation? And here, now, between you and me, I will tell you that Donnie McClurkin is a broken, hurting man who is not dealing with it very well, and he is very, very wrong about sexuality, about sin, and about what God wants from you and me.

Here is the truth that McClurkin and so many others have missed. As a very astute friend of mine once said, when we get up to the Pearly Gates, St. Peter is not going to ask us whether we're gay or straight, Republican or Democrat. He's not even going to ask us if we're Christian or not. In fact, St. Peter's not going to be at the gates at all, and he's certainly not going to be asking any questions.

Instead, we will simply come face to face with Christ himself, and even he won't be asking any questions. He'll just say: "I think I know you. I was hungry in Africa, and you fed me." Or: "Oh, I recognize you. I was in jail in Texas, and you came to see me." Or: "I remember you! You took care of me in the hospice in Calcutta!" Or: "No, no, I don't think I know you. Sorry." This is both the grace and the judgment we are offered, and you'll notice it doesn't have a damn thing to do with whom we shared a bed, how we voted, or even what we believed.

Good night, then, and best of luck. The love of God, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the direction of the Holy Spirit guide you into all peace and fulfillment. Live up to your vocation to love one another, and ignore the fatheads. God loves you very much, and so do I.

Yours,
pastor Dan

[kelly]

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11)

[Olbermann]

"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and in the Spirit of our God." (I CORINTHIANS 6:9-11)
Kelly

I will not be drawn into a competitive Battle of Scripture verses with you. From reading many of your past topic responses, it's very apparent that you are not willing to meditate or empathize concerning any discussion topic posted here.

You are what you are, and you believe what you believe. I can accept that. I'm just sorry that you feel a need to condemn those who take a opposing stand to beliefs of your own.

There are many interesting, diverse, and wonderful groups of people out there that you will never have the pleasure of knowing and sharing with because you won't take the time to listen.

[sandy]

I typed up a brilliant reply but it didn't post. :(

I'm not interested in knowing freaks who are mostly anti-Christ, anti-USA, anti-God, anti-family, anti-decency etc...:mad:

I don't want to "listen" to them. I've seen/heard enough at their rallies.

God said it first that homosexuality is wrong. Freaks attempts to twist His words and are pathetic and disgusting. They are trying to make themselves feel better about their bad choices.:(

And just because we oppose homo/sodomy does NOT make us bigots.

[kelly]

Kelly

I will not be drawn into a competitive Battle of Scripture verses with you. From reading many of your past topic responses, it's very apparent that you are not willing to meditate or empathize concerning any discussion topic posted here.
Well, you're wrong and misguided. You post a lengthy argument to condone homosexual behavior [included scripture reference], I respond with a small [yet powerful] scripture denoting Gods condemnation. It is His Holy Word, not mine, you have a conflict with.

You are what you are, and you believe what you believe. I can accept that. I'm just sorry that you feel a need to condemn those who take a opposing stand to beliefs of your own.
Your internal conflict and disappointment is against The Written Word, Gods Word. I can condemn no one.

There are many interesting, diverse, and wonderful groups of people out there that you will never have the pleasure of knowing and sharing with because you won't take the time to listen.
I have worked with and along side homosexuals. But when discussion involves man having sex with another man, I disagree. Simply because (1) nature has transparently distinguished the genders for a divine and ultimate purpose, and (2) The Creator has condemned the act for obvious and simple reasons.

[sandy]

How can anyone possibly think homosexuality is ok? :confused: I just don't get it. God said it's wrong, so it's wrong. God said they're not going to Heaven so they're not.:(

Another thing I don't get is the whole pearly gates reference. Born-again children of God go straight to Heaven. No questions asked, no stops, no delays.
Children of satan go straight to hell. No questions, no stops, no delays. They don't even get a chance to meet God. They were offered Him their whole lives and they chose satan instead. So sad...

[RushDog]

I'm a big Donnie McClurkin fan, and I agree with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0UV08RMopc

[X1TX]

Paul apparently thought of homosexual practice as a reflection of selfishness - he had no frame of reference for understanding sexual orientation or the mutual equality of committed partners - but our understanding has changed. His basic point, however, stands: because the God of Christ is characterized by self-giving, those who are self-seeking cannot be in right relationship with that God.

I doubt Paul lacked any frame of reference for understanding. He was well versed in the Bible of that day, what we call the Old Testament. There were numerous jeremiads against the exaltation of sexuality throughout the major and minor prophets. One of the items that the prophets railed against were the 'sex and religion' shrines that were rampant before the fall of Israel and Judah. The way our culture today is so sexually focused, it gives those that look at our history in the context of our relation to God some cause for deep concern. When those that see the signs of the times voice their concerns (many times in ways that lack any sense of tact) they're shouted down as 'bigots', 'homophobes', 'hatemongers', etc. Though if you see someone who's about to get hit by a bus, one tends not to worry too much about tact for the sake of expedience. Vonnegut used such an example in a humerous way in Slaughterhouse Five. But as I said in another thread, when dealing with such issues, turn on the emotion filter and realize that everyone is going to have heightened emotions when discussing such matters.

And Paul's writings about homosexuality is pretty clear in Romans 1. It's one of the last steps on the rung into the descent into rebellion against the will of God. Paul says that once a person gets to that point that God has in essence given them over to their own desires. Remember, we are commanded to have no other god before Him. If we say that we want to hold out something (anything, from a TV show, web site :eek:, drinking habit, drug habit, or sexual habit) that we're unwilling to give up for Him, then we have a de facto god before Him.

[ktl]

The problem I have with paul's writings (blogs?) is that he took out the compassion Jesus had for the poor and instead focused on sexual matters. In doing so, he put himself above God, to be the one who decided what was wrong and what was good. I also add that he also included sexual acts between men and women if they were not married to be as equally wrong as homosexuality.

Jesus never mentioned these things. He was trying to build a perfect world, showing that we are to care for others as we care for ousrselves.

Now, because of Paul, it is okay to take away a man's home, as long as we go to church, and are living the correct lifestyle.

I bet christianity today is lot different than what Jesus imagined it.

I could include some biblical verses, but I am in a big hurry today.

[X1TX]

The problem I have with paul's writings (blogs?) is that he took out the compassion Jesus had for the poor and instead focused on sexual matters. In doing so, he put himself above God, to be the one who decided what was wrong and what was good. I also add that he also included sexual acts between men and women if they were not married to be as equally wrong as homosexuality.

Not sure where Paul said that. Jesus focus on the poor was due in large part to the religious sect's penchant for building their own personal wealth and neglecting the kindness that God had commanded us to show to one another (love your neighbor as yourself). The sexual immorality wasn't as prevelant in Judea in those days as it had been in the days before the captivity. The sexual immorality was rampant in the 'Gentile' world into which Paul ventured. As far as 'equivalence' of sinful behavior, all of it is equally bad (including my own) in God's eyes.

Jesus never mentioned these things. He was trying to build a perfect world, showing that we are to care for others as we care for ousrselves.

Christ was indeed trying to (and succeeded) build a perfect world. But as he said "my kingdom is not of this world", so His world isn't the here and now we all perceive.

Now, because of Paul, it is okay to take away a man's home, as long as we go to church, and are living the correct lifestyle.

Not sure where you get that. Never read anything like that in scripture and I've read through the Bible in at least 5 different translations. Paul wrote one of the greatest chapters on love (1 Corinthians 13) that there is.

I bet christianity today is lot different than what Jesus imagined it.

Of that I have no doubt. Christ's last prayer before being taken to his trials was for unity of believers. We're not a very unified group nowadays.

I could include some biblical verses, but I am in a big hurry today.

[Feisty Kitty]

I doubt Paul lacked any frame of reference for understanding. He was well versed in the Bible of that day, what we call the Old Testament. There were numerous jeremiads against the exaltation of sexuality throughout the major and minor prophets. One of the items that the prophets railed against were the 'sex and religion' shrines that were rampant before the fall of Israel and Judah. The way our culture today is so sexually focused, it gives those that look at our history in the context of our relation to God some cause for deep concern. When those that see the signs of the times voice their concerns (many times in ways that lack any sense of tact) they're shouted down as 'bigots', 'homophobes', 'hatemongers', etc. Though if you see someone who's about to get hit by a bus, one tends not to worry too much about tact for the sake of expedience. Vonnegut used such an example in a humerous way in Slaughterhouse Five. But as I said in another thread, when dealing with such issues, turn on the emotion filter and realize that everyone is going to have heightened emotions when discussing such matters.

And Paul's writings about homosexuality is pretty clear in Romans 1. It's one of the last steps on the rung into the descent into rebellion against the will of God. Paul says that once a person gets to that point that God has in essence given them over to their own desires. Remember, we are commanded to have no other god before Him. If we say that we want to hold out something (anything, from a TV show, web site :eek:, drinking habit, drug habit, or sexual habit) that we're unwilling to give up for Him, then we have a de facto god before Him.

So, having said that, then even heterosexual sex, inside the context of marriage, could be considered 'our own desires'. (Because, hello, they are!) So if that gets in the way of a person's love for God, he/ she should refrain? Or, are we going to start in on how sex is for procreation only and we shouldn't worry about physical satisfaction and all of that BS?

I am sorry, but the 'word of god' as you all put it is A. Fallible and B. Open to interpretation. None of what you all tout as cannon is provable as the word of a deity. Men wrote the Bible, supposedly based on inspiration, but also in accordance with the laws of the day. Homosexuality was considered bad by mainstream society in Israel during this time. Paul followed along with those Old Testement teachings...that were written by other men! Jesus didn't say a darn word about gays, EVER!!! At least, as far as we know, according to this Bible!

Stop calling it god's word or god's law. If Jesus is the "Only way, the truth and the life," and he said nothing about homosexuals, then you are wrong in saying it was god's law. It was man's law, and you are deifying man/ men, such as Paul, making him like god and breaking your own rules.

Your eyes are clouded and your rationale flawed. (You being all of you, not just X1TX).

[kelly]

I am sorry, but the 'word of god' as you all put it is A. Fallible and B. Open to interpretation. None of what you all tout as cannon is provable as the word of a deity.

Is it provable ? Why are you getting married to SoS, FK ? To save from two mortgages ? [Of course not] Love ?? I assume, Yes. Well has SoS proven his undeniable, unquestionable love for you ? How ? You can't read the man's mind. Actions do speak loud, but couples are falling out of love everyday. Is there an explanation ?

What do you think about these sayings, FK ?

Honor thy Mother and Father. Don't kill. Don't steal. Don't commit adultery. Don't lie. Don't lust for another person [wife or husband] or their belongings. Love your neighbor as yourself.

Sound good enough to build a relationship with ? A family ? :)

[X1TX]

So, having said that, then even heterosexual sex, inside the context of marriage, could be considered 'our own desires'. (Because, hello, they are!) So if that gets in the way of a person's love for God, he/ she should refrain? Or, are we going to start in on how sex is for procreation only and we shouldn't worry about physical satisfaction and all of that BS?

Actually, even OT scripture talks of sex in marriage simply for pleasure. That's one of the main themes of "Song of Solomon" (also called "Song of Songs"). The sexual references are so clear that the Jews wouldn't allow their kids to read it until they were near the age of marriage. Sex between husband and wife is a gift to us. But like everything else God gives us (includng scripture) we manage to twist, distort, and misuse it. That doesn't indicate a flaw with God or His word, just with us fallible silly bags of water.


I am sorry, but the 'word of god' as you all put it is A. Fallible and B. Open to interpretation. None of what you all tout as cannon is provable as the word of a deity. Men wrote the Bible, supposedly based on inspiration, but also in accordance with the laws of the day. Homosexuality was considered bad by mainstream society in Israel during this time. Paul followed along with those Old Testement teachings...that were written by other men! Jesus didn't say a darn word about gays, EVER!!! At least, as far as we know, according to this Bible!

True, Jesus didn't discuss homosexuals at all. But again, that practice had pretty much disappeared in the days of Christ. Probably one of the reasons the authors of the Gospels felt no need to address anything he may have said or done relative to it. It just wasn't a prevailing issue in those days. Especially in Galillee which was their equivalent of the Bible Belt in those days. That's one of the reasons the religious leaders took so long to take Jesus seriously. They though "Oh no, here comes another religious nut from Lake Kinnereth". And as I said earlier, homosexuality was far more prevalent in the Hellenized societies that Paul entered than anywhere Jesus ventured. And there are numerous proofs of the inspiration of the Bible. For the OT, most notably the reference to Cyrus over 800 years before he was born. There are many others.

And the scriptures aren't a matter of interpretation as revelation. That takes time, but it does come. If you honestly seek truth you will find it. And no, I am not the holder of truth. I'm just a seeker of it.

Stop calling it god's word or god's law. If Jesus is the "Only way, the truth and the life," and he said nothing about homosexuals, then you are wrong in saying it was god's law. It was man's law, and you are deifying man/ men, such as Paul, making him like god and breaking your own rules.

Your eyes are clouded and your rationale flawed. (You being all of you, not just X1TX).

Well, many of us do believe in the inspiration of scripture. That's my choice. You don't have to accept it as such. But nobody is deifying Paul. I do believe he wrote 2/3 of the New Testament under inspriation. Again, that's what I choose to believe. Paul is not the deity. Though those that believe in verbal plenary inspiration believe the deity provided the inspiration.

[ktl]

Not sure where you get that. Never read anything like that in scripture and I've read through the Bible in at least 5 different translations. Paul wrote one of the greatest chapters on love (1 Corinthians 13) that there is.

.[/QUOTE]

I have more time now. I think you are asking where in the Bible does Jesus come against the rich oppressing the poor(?). One instance is found in Mark 12/38-40, "Beware the scribes who like to walk around in long robes and like respectful greetings in the market place and chief seats of honor at banquets, aho devour widows' houses, and for appeances' sake offer long prayers' these will receieve greater condemnation."

These are Christ's words. Did he mention gays here? No. Did He mention unmarried sex here? No.

Christ wanted this to be a better world. Otherwise, I do not think He would have wasted His time. And it appears that we are failing God.

Paul rewrote christianity to appease the rich, so they might feel blessed as they went along their selfish lives while oppressing the poor.

God did not like that then, and He does not like it now.

[X1TX]

No, I was asking where you got the idea that Paul said it was okay to take someone's house if they just went to church. I just don't see that supported anywhere. Though some of our "prosperity gospel" preachers today might try to use scripture to say that. None of Paul's writings, taken in context, would support that.

[ktl]

No, I was asking where you got the idea that Paul said it was okay to take someone's house if they just went to church. I just don't see that supported anywhere. Though some of our "prosperity gospel" preachers today might try to use scripture to say that. None of Paul's writings, taken in context, would support that.


Just look at the world around you!!! Since the focus of christianity is on Paul and his blogs, what Jesus said is not preached. Paul could care less about the poor and he only concentrated on sexual sin. He never said how God hates the oppression of the rich by the poor, something that Christ said. That was not important to Paul.

According to Paul, a rich man can live his life by taking advantage of the poor, getting richer every day, and then when he dies, Jesus will welcome him into heaven with open arms, because he went to church and did not get involved in sexual affairs.

Oh yes, the rich man loveth Paul.

[TaylorHicksRocks]

You know all the narrow minds should consider for one moment if they had a loved one that was indeed a homosexual would y'all walk up to them and call them an abomination? Or would you encourage your loved one to attend services where they can hear more about the word of God and all the love Jesus had for everyone and that includes the sinners....BTW we are all sinners and if you claim to be sin free then you too are a sinner....

[sandy]

So, having said that, then even heterosexual sex, inside the context of marriage, could be considered 'our own desires'. (Because, hello, they are!) So if that gets in the way of a person's love for God, he/ she should refrain? Or, are we going to start in on how sex is for procreation only and we shouldn't worry about physical satisfaction and all of that BS?
I am sorry, but the 'word of god' as you all put it is A. Fallible and B. Open to interpretation. None of what you all tout as cannon is provable as the word of a deity. Men wrote the Bible, supposedly based on inspiration, but also in accordance with the laws of the day. Homosexuality was considered bad by mainstream society in Israel during this time. Paul followed along with those Old Testement teachings...that were written by other men! Jesus didn't say a darn word about gays, EVER!!! At least, as far as we know, according to this Bible!
Stop calling it god's word or god's law. If Jesus is the "Only way, the truth and the life," and he said nothing about homosexuals, then you are wrong in saying it was god's law. It was man's law, and you are deifying man/ men, such as Paul, making him like god and breaking your own rules.
Your eyes are clouded and your rationale flawed. (You being all of you, not just X1TX).

The Word is NOT fallible and it is NOT open to interpretation. Nor is it open to twisting to fit anyone's rationale.:(

It is GOD'S Word. It IS His law. There is no denying it. You choose to believe or not. Your choice/decision determines where you want to spend eternity.

Our eyes are NOT clouded and our rationale is NOT flawed.
Born-again-on-fire-for Jesus believers are going to Heaven. Non-believers aren't. It really is that simple.:)

[TaylorHicksRocks]

As long as you believe and accept Jesus Christ into your heart your sins are forgiven.....That is God's Law!!!!!!

[sandy]

Your sins are forgiven but if your repentance was not sincere (you return to your vile lifestyle), you aren't saved. You are spitting in God's face and you will go straight to hell with the others.:eek:

[TaylorHicksRocks]

Well I guess we can agree that we disagree.....God would not turn his back on any of his children...

[sandy]

And HIS children would NEVER turn their back on Him.;)

[TaylorHicksRocks]

I am a child of God and rather teach others that God Hates certain groups of people I let everyone I know about the Love God has for his children....

[ktl]

You know all the narrow minds should consider for one moment if they had a loved one that was indeed a homosexual would y'all walk up to them and call them an abomination? Or would you encourage your loved one to attend services where they can hear more about the word of God and all the love Jesus had for everyone and that includes the sinners....BTW we are all sinners and if you claim to be sin free then you too are a sinner....

Here is where when Jesus spells out how He really judges: Matthew 25/ 42: For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat."............read Matthew 25 31-46 for the rest of the verses.


Notice, He does not mention homosexuality, heteral sexuality or liars or lazy people. The condemnation of these was purely an invention of paul.

[X1TX]

Your sins are forgiven but if your repentance was not sincere (you return to your vile lifestyle), you aren't saved. You are spitting in God's face and you will go straight to hell with the others.:eek:

Careful. There's only one who can say who goes to where after death. And you're not Him. And He does tend to take umbrage with those that would wish to usurp His position.

All of us who have come to faith in and accepted the free gift of salvation that is ours in Christ do not live sinless lives. We have to let Christ live it for us. And in God's eyes those sins are all the same. One is no more egregious than the other.

[sandy]

I am a child of God and rather teach others that God Hates certain groups of people I let everyone I know about the Love God has for his children....

We don't teach that God hates anyone.

And to X1: I don't have any intention of usurping God. He is the great I am.
I am NOTHING compared to Him. He gave us this life along with free will.
I disagree that "we have to let Christ live it for us". Through us, yes. For us, no. (Unless I misinterpreted your comment.)
Interesting comments though...:)

[TaylorHicksRocks]

We don't teach that God hates anyone.

And to X1: I don't have any intention of usurping God. He is the great I am.
I am NOTHING compared to Him. He gave us this life along with free will.
I disagree that "we have to let Christ live it for us". Through us, yes. For us, no. (Unless I misinterpreted your comment.)
Interesting comments though...:)

Actions speak louder than words....you have said many times that you hate homosexuals by calling them an abomination.....same thing with liberals and all Muslim people......Now you have added more to your list and all I can say is I reach out to people to help them learn about God's Love....I try not to Judge others because well because you should try walking in their shoes for a day or 2......Out yourself in their position and you would find yourself much more tolerant of others.....and people are attracted to love not the anger that you continue to spew....

[RushDog]

"...Reach out, reach out, and touch someone. Reach out, call up, and just say,'hi'..."

[sandy]

I NEVER SAID I HATED HOMOS. QUIT TWISTING MY WORDS!:mad:

Hating their choices and hating them are two different things. Duh.

Tolerance is ruing this country. We're tolerating homos, criminal aliens, evil muslimes.... :mad:

I AM righteously indignant about a lot of things here. I don't just sit in my little world and accept everything. I DO something about it.

[RushDog]

I NEVER SAID I HATED HOMOS. QUIT TWISTING MY WORDS!



Actually, I'm the one who said that.

Heheheheheeeeeee:p:p:p:p

[sandy]

Oh, ok. :)

[TaylorHicksRocks]

I NEVER SAID I HATED HOMOS. QUIT TWISTING MY WORDS!

Hating their choices and hating them are two different things. Duh.

Tolerance is ruing this country. We're tolerating homos, criminal aliens, evil muslimes.... :mad:

I AM righteously indignant about a lot of things here. I don't just sit in my little world and accept everything. I DO something about it.

Well with all your anger directed at certain people it certainly seems as if you do hate all kinds of people...
:p:p:p

[Feisty Kitty]

Is it provable ? Why are you getting married to SoS, FK ? To save from two mortgages ? [Of course not] Love ?? I assume, Yes. Well has SoS proven his undeniable, unquestionable love for you ? How ? You can't read the man's mind. Actions do speak loud, but couples are falling out of love everyday. Is there an explanation ?

What do you think about these sayings, FK ?

Honor thy Mother and Father. Don't kill. Don't steal. Don't commit adultery. Don't lie. Don't lust for another person [wife or husband] or their belongings. Love your neighbor as yourself.

Sound good enough to build a relationship with ? A family ? :)

All of the commandments are common themes in most religions and societies. They are part of a very common moral code. It proves nothing that they are in the Bible.

And yes, I do love SoS, and I want to spend my life with him, knowing that there is a good chance that it will be difficult. He and I are lovers, partners and best friends, and nothing is certain in life, so there is always a possibility that it won't last. I have to acknowledge that. He is his own person, and he could fall out of love with me. However, both of us are committed to DO OUR BEST by and for each other, and to always work at "US".

His love for me is something I accept by trust and from what I have seen from his actions. It is not truly provable. I believe that he loves me. HOWEVER, I have never seen any evidence to the contrary. I have seen contrary evidence to the Bible.......LOTS! Sorry, your argument hold no water.