Does your vote REALLY count?

[AbsentElement]

I've seen a number of posts now, wherein people make the assertion that the American Idol voting system is 'fixed,' and that the producers actually decide who will be in the bottom three, who will be eliminated, and who will move on. I've never really seen the discussions together in one thread, and I'm curious: 1) how many people actually do believe this; and 2) what are your specific reasons / examples that support this?

I'm not sure I believe it just yet, but I do, at times wonder.

If I may play devil's advocate and start by pointing out the obvious, AI has never released the actual vote counts. Why is this? Do they feel that releasing the vote counts would give the viewers an accurate idea as to where each contestant stands against the others, thereby giving the viewers motivation to 'campaign' for their favorite idol? Or are they keeping the tallies a secret so they can 'make the show more interesting'?

Another situation that made me question how much is controlled by the viewers and how much is controlled by the producers is was when Katharine wound up in the bottom three. Here's why. Two Tuesdays ago (fifties week), we had a number of outstanding performances. Simon told Katharine that she 'became a star.' Last Tuesday, nearly every contestant was just average, and the show was overall, rather disappointing. Who wants to watch a show where the performers are all just 'okay'? Well, if you take one of the top contenders to win it all, and make an example of her in front of the others, it makes it very clear that no one is safe, giving everyone the motivation to pony up the next week, hopefully improving future ratings. Viewers can become bored very quickly. Two shows in a row as bad as last week's can have seriously adverse consequences. Additionally, look at the dramatic effect it had when the last two were Katharine and Bucky. At that moment in time, I think most people would have bet a million bucks (if they had it) that Bucky would be called to center stage.

I know there are other similar instances out there, but I'd like to hear from everyone else (and not bore everyone to death with my long posts). So I'll save it for you guys. Anyone feel their vote doesn't count? If so, why (specific examples, hopefully).

[Son of Simon]

This sounds like it would make for a very insteresting discussion. Thanks for putting this together AbsentElement!

The first rule of modern day reality televsion is: Reality TV rarely has anything to do with reality. While reality TV is less "fictional" in the sense that traditional TV shows are, there is still a great deal of fiction in them, based on what the producers of the show wish to record and air for their viewing public.

So it's not a "lie" in the sense that telling your kids about Santa is, it's more of a "true lie" where you start with some element of truth and distort it to convey whatever perception you'd like to convey for your audience. American Idol is very much like many of your other reality contests in that it is a "game show", yet what you watch is being staged and filtered as the producers desire. If they know that Kellie is regarded by the audience as a naive, sweet little country girl, they will ask her questions and use video clips that support and enhance this idea. If they know that the twins Terell and Derell are mouthy, arrogant, and deluded, they will follow them around with cameras and show us the most interesting part of their AI experience.

I tend to believe (believe being the operative word here) that the producers of AI DO have some stake in guiding the American audience as to who to vote for, and this is a balance between American entertainment demographics vs. the credibility of American Idol.

Have a look at modern day entertainment. What movies top the box office in sales these days? Kids movies. Pixar is making a killing, and there are many reasons for this, which are not entirely relevant to this discussion, but one is. More kids go to movies than adults. Children are larger, more profitable audiences these days than adults are, and modern programming and advertising are more focused to these types of audiences.

If we carry this assumption into our consideration of American Idol, then can we say that producers are concerned about who wins the competition? Of course they are. Kids may not be the best at discering vocal talent (remember Britney Spears, the Spice Girls, and any boy band you can think of has outsold every other recording artist with less than a 10 year career), so the producers are keen on this. If this is true- then we might expect someone popular with today's youth being the strongest contestant on American Idol, and suddenly it's less of a singing competition, it's a more of a popularity/demographic competition.

Is that bad? It is if producers are concerned with the credibility and longevity of the show. If AI does nothing but pump out winners that resemble the Lindsey Lohans and Ashlee Simpsons of the world, then the viewing audience is better off sticking to the Disney Channel to see who the next big pop star will be. Then fewer people would care who won AI, and this kills the show as well as the pool of contestants willing to be on the show. Producers want to see the best overall talent and entertainer win, so that next season more talent will be on the show. If the Barbie-doll with limited vocal ability wins cause he's/she's popular with the kids, then we'll see nothing but a wave of clones the following year.

That's why I believe the producers can get very creative with how they depict the contest, it's why they weigh in so much on the comments of the judges. AI has to strike a delicate balance between it's consciously large youth/teen appeal, and still remain a contest based on talent.

That said- there is no direct evidence to support that voting may be fixed.

Votes are not shared publicly, in part because of the reason you cite:

releasing the vote counts would give the viewers an accurate idea as to where each contestant stands against the others, thereby giving the viewers motivation to 'campaign' for their favorite idol

The easiest way to garner the largest amount of votes is to keep everyone in the dark. If you aren't sure your absolute favorite is gonna stay on the show- you better vote all night!

Also- disclosing the actual number of votes can be disconcertaing to contestants if they are, say substantially below the other contestants. If Lisa leaves the show with only 400,000 votes compared to Katharine's 3 million votes, that can have some damaging effects upon a 16 year old girl. If Lisa's tally is 400,000 to Katharines 400,010, then perhaps laywers can force a recount, or the result can be contested. It can be bad either way.

In addition, if we know that Chris had 30,000,000 of the 35 million votes each week, then many of us would stop watching. The show is a done-deal. Disclosing the votes would be bad for everyone involved.

As for Katharine Macphee's struggles last week- I tend to think this has mroe to do with "apathy" than anything else. Katharine is undoubtedly talented, but I feel the audience is growing apathetic with her. She needs to show more emotion (not to mention more sex-appeal) to really invigorate her audience at this point, because she may appear dull and overlooked compared to the rather solidified characters in the rest of the contestants.

These are just my opinions. I don't see any evidence of the producers tampering with voting, so I cannot say I believe it is happening.

[CoronaBabyGirlxo]

You know I have never even really thought about that idea but now that you say that whole thing about Katherine, it makes sense. I wonder why AI doesnt release the votes, maybe they are fixed. So does AI choose who the winner is going to be?

[frank]

Seacreast opens the results show by stating that "Over 37 Million votes were cast Last Night!!!" Implying that there were at least 37 million viewers. Come on!!! How many times have we read on these boards " I voted 30 times?" I began questioning the validity of AI years ago. Every time I do, Legions of "Believers" pounce upon me to rebuff my claims.

Idol is by far the easiest Game Show ever, to be fixed. If the ratings fall ever so slightly, the producers drop a fan favorite into the bottom three to create controversy.
I'll say it again....The vote tally IS NEVER RELEASED TO THE VIEWING PUBLIC.

The phone voting is nothing more than recordings of thank you's. "Thank you for voting for contestant number 7".
Hit Redial.....Hit Redial.....hit Redial........

Look, what does it profit producers to allow us to decide? These are professionals trained in how to manipulate and sell their product. They have been successful because they Pull all the strings. It's how they make millions of $$$$$$$$! Do you honestly think that they would let us, or Votefortheworst. com, or Idolgohome.com decide whether or not THEIR "Golden Goose-Meal ticket" lives or dies?

The show itself is moderately entertaining, Most of the singers are only, slightly entertaining, the main focus of the show is to get us to be intertwined with the personality plot lines, not the singing talent. Believe me when I say "American Idol is not About The Singers. :cool: "

[frank]

Mr. AbsentElement;
One other thing that will show you that the whole concept of "fixing the show", is realistic, is the amount of replies that your thread receives. AB...people really would rather post two word posts than have to be bothered with actually using their reasoning abilities.

Is Ace gay? Is Kellie really dumb? Song Choice? Yada, yada, yada. I BELIEVE!!!!! I BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!

[AbsentElement]

Mr. AbsentElement;
One other thing that will show you that the whole concept of "fixing the show", is realistic, is the amount of replies that your thread receives. AB...people really would rather post two word posts than have to be bothered with actually using their reasoning abilities.

Is Ace gay? Is Kellie really dumb? Song Choice? Yada, yada, yada. I BELIEVE!!!!! I BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!
ROTFLMAO!!!

[Son of Simon]

Here's a thought for you:

What if voting is weighted rather than tallied directly?

Thoughts?

[frank]

Here's a thought for you:

What if voting is weighted rather than tallied directly?

Thoughts?

What would be the discerning criteria to decide whose votes counted more? Anyway, didn't you hear that the whole voting system is a sham?

[pddccc]

I think the producers are skewing things, but Im not sure that it is rigged in a conventional way. Tomarrow I will post my reasons for believing this in another thread because my reasons are numerous.

[david95]

Either way it's not a true voting system anyway. My wife, her cousin and I did not vote during the 1st idol though we watched. But we finally decided to vote on the final 2 of the 2nd idol. My wife's cousin wanted to vote for Rubin and we were going to vote for Clay. So I dialed for Rubin's vote 1st. Got through the 1st time. Then spent the next 2 hours constantly redialing to try to get at least 1 vote in for Clay. It never happened. Busy for 2 straight hours, then we gave up. The next day I head Ruben's mother voted 100+ times. And I couldn't get 1 vote in? You mean the lines were so busy that I could not get through to Clays line, but Ruben's line was open enough for 100+ calls from his mother? It appears to me that Clay could not have received 1 more vote than he had, not because he didn't have people not wanting to vote for him, but because they couldn't get through.

So, either way if it's fixed or not, it's not a true count anyway. Or at least it wasn't back then. Maybe, just maybe, they have corrected this problem. I just kindof doubt it. So we don't vote anymore :(.

[borch]

I hate to think I wasted my time voting over 30 times for Bucky last night! Even though Taylor is my favorite contestant and I love a lot of the other ones, I just felt that the others weren't in any danger of going home so I focused all my energies on Bucky. I hate to see him go. All though you really do wonder if your vote does truly count. It's hard to say and I don't have any evidence either way. That being said, if Bucky goes home, it won't be for lack of trying on my part!

[love2sing]

Obviously, by the nature of the opening shows, the producers have some say in who will eventually be the American Idol Winner. The American public does not have a vote until millions of people have been turned away and "Randy, Simon, and Paula" have narrowed down our choices for us...Clearly "their" voice is the voice of the producers. Then once we are allowed to "vote" our choices are influenced by the comments of the the three "voices" once again...they tell us why we should like someone, who looks the best, dances the best, sings the best...and America listens...

I do not think that AI would risk the legal implications of actually lying about or rigging votes...The law suits would be never ending!

I agree with the idea that the "number" isn't disclosed for the best interest of the contestants and show and the viewers...I don't think that knowing the actual tally is necessary to influence whether or not we "believe" the results. If you are a skeptic then you'll just think that they are lying about the number they reveal.

[Magicmarkerman]

I do not believe it is fixed. I have extensively given my viewpoint on the topic in my post 'Talent Poll...out of curiosity'

I believe the positions that truly matter (the number one spot, and the last spot) are dead on accurate... My conclusion about the producers having some liberties with the other contestants was based on where everyone in between those two extremes fell... Thats whe my theory of the other bottom 2 people being used to create drama comes in... That in my opinion isnt 'FIXING' the votes... because the person going home is accurate... It doesnt matter who else in in the bottom 3 on a vote off night... They will stay, so why wouldnt the Producers want to spice it up a bit and get people charged up to vote to 'Make sure' their favorite doesnt wind up in the bottom 3 again??!! :) Seems like a brilliant scheme to me... It's working, and more and more people are voting!