Do the contestants deserve to be on American Idol?

[bigd13]

I talked with a lot of people and they said that most of the people on there can't sing. My opinion of how good these people actually are has changed.
There are really four people who I would say can sing Chris, Mandisa, Paris and Elliot. My opinion of Katherine has changed, she can sing, but I don't feel anything when she sings. The rest don't belong there. I think their were way better singers in the auditions than I do right now. Melissa who got voted off when they were singing Stevie Wonder sounded way better than half of the contestants. Simon keeps saying that they supposedly have the best singers, but they don't a few of them are really good, the rest are okay, and most just don't belong there at all. I just wanted to know if anybody else feels that Simon, Paula, and Randy picked the wrong people, that most of the contestants are not that talented, and do not deserve to be on American Idol.

[AbsentElement]

... most of the contestants are not that talented, and do not deserve to be on American Idol.

Ratings and $$$, my friend. Although this is one of the tougher groups of finalists to predict (there are a few stand-outs), you have to mix a couple of underdogs and antagonists in there to keep people coming back each week. Imagine how many great singers were turned away at the audition venues without ever a chance to sing in front of the judges. Case in point, ask yourself, what it is that really keeps you glued to the TV during the audition weeks. The good performers? I think not. :)

And America isn't always right either. Whatever it is that might affect the outcome, once America starts voting, some of the better performers get the boot before the worse ones. Case in point, Gideon McKinney's gone and Bucky is still around?

[frank]

I still wonder aloud if the whole phone voting thing is a sham. Think about it, Fox has never released the weekly vote count and it would seem to be well within reason that they might have dummy phone sites that thank you for voting for contestants. For all we know, producers could actually be choosing who goes and who stays. They could decide to send a more talented singer home to create controversy, thus guaranting a larger viewership the following week. Just a thought....Hmmmmmmmm

[frank]

MSNBC, last night, On Scarborough Country, pretty much confirmed what I have wondered about for years now that the show is rigged by the producers. Because the voting is NEVER revealed to the public, rigging the outcome by the producers would be a piece of cake. It was reported last night on MSNBC the the Ruben/Clay showdown was fixed. Fox reported that Ruben received 60% of the vote, while Clay received 40%. It was reported that in actuality Clay had won the competition 60%/40%.
The reason that producers chose to "LET" Ruben win was growing concern among Fox that Clay might be gay. If all of us are honest, we have to admit that because the actual vote count is never made public, fixing this competition, would be EASY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[AbsentElement]

MSNBC, last night, On Scarborough Country, pretty much confirmed what I have wondered about for years now that the show is rigged by the producers. Because the voting is NEVER revealed to the public, rigging the outcome by the producers would be a piece of cake. It was reported last night on MSNBC the the Ruben/Clay showdown was fixed. Fox reported that Ruben received 60% of the vote, while Clay received 40%. It was reported that in actuality Clay had won the competition 60%/40%.
The reason that producers chose to "LET" Ruben win was growing concern among Fox that Clay might be gay. If all of us are honest, we have to admit that because the actual vote count is never made public, fixing this competition, would be EASY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have to wonder though, after 5 seasons of doing the show, certainly such an issue would have been leaked from the inside by now... It would take some pretty extreme measures to keep something like that quiet. Did MSNBC say how they confirmed that particluar vote actually went the other way? I don't want to bring politics of media into discussion, but there are definitely some media outlets who contrive such conspiracy theories (on a range of topics) to boost ratings and get a rise out of people.

[frank]

I have to wonder though, after 5 seasons of doing the show, certainly such an issue would have been leaked from the inside by now... It would take some pretty extreme measures to keep something like that quiet. Did MSNBC say how they confirmed that particular vote actually went the other way? I don't want to bring politics of media into discussion, but there are definitely some media outlets who contrive such conspiracy theories (on a range of topics) to boost ratings and get a rise out of people.
A.E,
Leaking information about the show would be the equivalent of killing the Goose that lays the golden Egg. An example of extreme measures of secrecy would be the Sopranos, they are able to keep plot lines bottled up.
MSNBC mentioned the company that handled the phone voting but I can't remember their name. Sorry. But A.E. You have to admit that AI deliberately chooses the 24 contestants that they believe we will become emotionally tied to, as opposed to giving us the best 24 singers out of the thousands of auditions. Example....Brenna.....Bucky.....the Jailbird twins.....and it goes on and on. You can't tell me that this years 24 finalists are the "Best" 24 singers of all the auditions. Can You?

[AbsentElement]

Oh no, I know the 24 they give America aren't the best 24 from all of the auditions. That's a whole different subject. In fact, there are thousands that never even get to the judges. The producers do put some good ones through to the judges, but they have to throw in the interesting personalities (despite lack of talent) to make the audition portion of the show interesting.

Once they get to Hollywood week, I think the judges take more into consideration than just the ability to sing. Take Bucky, he's awful (and I'm sure you will poop on him tonight), but he obviously has a following. That following equates to potential revenue. So they try to forsee this and they put him through. They have to have diversity in that group so that they cover their bases in case the American Idol viewers' tastes change.

On the other hand, if what you're saying is true, it is possible that the producers carry over the same thinking from the audition phase. They already know who they want to sign, but they keep viewers coming back to see if their favorite Idol will get voted off before the likes of Bucky. Maybe Simon Cowell is in charge of the whole thing. Maybe the 'subtle hints' he drops to AI voters are really subtle hints to the producers. :awink:

I guess, being the good ol' flag-waving, apple-pie-eating, American I am, I am just very leary about believing some things I hear in the media. I just don't believe it without seeing solid proof first.

[frank]

.I guess, being the good ol' flag-waving, apple-pie-eating, American I am, I am just very leery about believing some things I hear in the media. I just don't believe it without seeing solid proof first.
Ab....
The one and only way that all of us would know the truth is for Fox to identify the company handling the voting, and posting the actual vote count weekly. :cool_shad

[AbsentElement]

Ab....
The one and only way that all of us would know the truth is for Fox to identify the company handling the voting, and posting the actual vote count weekly. :cool_shad

I would actually love to see that myself. It would make 'fantasy idol' more realistic and worth playing. :)

[pddccc]

I will post a new thread in the next couple of days explaining all the techniques the show uses to get people to vote for who they want to get through to the next round. I think the show is fixed but not by the voting.

[cinnamocha]

KATHERINE MCPHEE OR ACE YOUNG ARE THE ONLY CONTESTANTS THAT DESERVE TO WIN AMERICAN IDOL!
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=Blue]THEY ARE THE ONLY CONTESTANTS WITH REAL NATURAL TALENT!
THEY BOTH HAVE THE TOTAL PACKAGE!

THEY WILL MAKE AMERICA PROUD TO HAVE THEM AS WINNERS OF THE AMERICAN IDOL CONTEST!

THEY WILL SELL $$$$$$$$$$ OF CD'S!!!!!

[barbie_09]

Katharine has a gorgeuos voice of course she deserves to be on the show. as well as Chris mandisa..... and elliot.

[cinnamocha]

KATHERINE MCPHEE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT DERSERVES TO WIN AMERICAN IDOL

Chris is terrible! He can only somewhat sing rock songs. and stomp around holding a microphone!

Mandisa all I can is is YUK!!! She is grossly overweight and her voice is too raspy!!! She desroys every song she tried to sing.

Everyone else can go to Karioke night at the local bar! LOL

[AbsentElement]

KATHERINE MCPHEE OR ACE YOUNG ARE THE ONLY CONTESTANTS THAT DESERVE TO WIN AMERICAN IDOL!

KATHERINE MCPHEE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT DERSERVES TO WIN AMERICAN IDOL

change your mind? :p

[Ciuma]

pddccc - waiting for that thread, then. I agree with you. And the rest who think the thing is directly rigged are rather silly... You can't say it's rigged just because America doesn't always vote logically. This is America! What's so hard to accept about America being an imperfect place full of imperfect people? Logic itself says that America isn't going to always be collectively logical.

And now look at what you're saying... that the "producers" deliberately choose those who'd have a following and eliminate the ones who are less interesting? Just think about this for a second... How about America getting rid of the ones that are less interesting because, oh, my gosh, they are less interesting!?

I rest my case.

[bootyshaker]

Excuse me! Can I just slap your face or something. How rude of you to comment such things about people. Are you that perfect? Do you sing well? Well, Katharine McPhee is good but she's BORING. Her performances aren't very appealing. Well, she has a good voice but to win the American Idol, it's so impossible. Ugh! Like Carrie? She's boring but she has quite a nice voice. Mandisa is the BOMB! Being an idol doesn't mean you have to be attractive. NOBODY wants to be overweight, and she's trying very hard to reduce some weight. And her performances and voice are always better than Katharine's. So shut up! And yes, Chris is sickening but he's not terribe coz he can at least sing a genre.

[norman1889]

FOLKS!!! This an American Idol Contest. Not just singing!!!! It is a total performer review. Medusa is a F******* fat pig!! Would you want to see a video with her in it???? She looked bigger than ever the last two nights. Let's get real and vote for the toal performer. Looks, talent, dancing, personality. Sure she is a good singer, but she is 300 pounds!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let's have a check up from the neck up. If anyone is having two scoops of jackass for breakfast and then voting for her, change your diet. She certainly needs to!

[cinnamocha]

NO!!!

THERE IS SOMETHING FISHY ABOUT THE VOTING!!!!

I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT AMERICA THINKS THAT MANDISA AND PARIS HAVE MORE VOTES THEN KATHERINE.

SOUNDS LIKE ANOTHER RUBEN/CLAY AIKEN FIASCO!!!!

At least they sent boring Lisa home!

[cinnamocha]

Mandisa went to the wrong Television Set!!!

She meant to apply for the BIGGGGGESTT LOSERRRR! THE PROBLEM WAS SHE WAS EATING A DOZEN KRISPY CREME DONUTS AT THE TIME AND WALKED ONTO THE WRONG SET!
IMAGINE HOW MUCH MORE ROOM THE OTHER CONTESTANTS WILL HAVE WHEN MANDINGO GOES HOME!!!

[Son of Simon]

Hi Bigd13,

In order to understand why the votes and choices come out the way they do, we need to understand a few things about why people are chosen and the reasons why we vote for them.

The act of singing and witnessing the performance of song can have everything from a mild to powerful effect upon a person. It is well understood that music and song can have a range of responses to those listening. Besides voting for people someone may know or be related to in real life, there are other factors that go into the voting process.

- Some people listen to song and pay close attention to pitch, range, clarity, strength, and ability. These people might be considered "purists" for vocal skills alone. We can call them vocal connosieurs if you like. Connosieurs tend to prefer a performer's ability to handle a range of material and adapt to it, rather than taking liberations to make it their own.

- Other people are relationally affected by song. They want their American Idol to reach them on a personal level, so these voters are paying attention to what identifies with them, and vote accordingly.

- Some people are relationally affected, but only within a certain musical genre. If they like R&B they will vote for R&B singers, if they like country they will vote for country singers. Genre voters can deeply appreciate artistry and taking liberations when a performer uses a particular song.

- Some people vote for attraction. And when I say this- I'm saying vocal AND some type of physical or emotional attraction. They commonly say "This person's voice pierces my soul" or "This person's voice is soothing or sultry." They're enticed by what is attracted to them, and often vocals is simply part of the winning formula.

- Other people vote along moral lines, but don't assume these are always "positive" morals. Maybe they vote for someone because they believe they are the nicest, or they are the underdog. Some negative voters intentionally vote for who they believe to be the worst Idol they can imagine, because that is a moral statement in of itself.

- And finally, some people vote on an entertainment basis. They're not as interested in sheer vocal ability, they want to be entertained by things like fun or exciting song choices, they look for strong showmanship and consider the performance, song selection, and stage presence as a whole.

Generally speaking, your average Idol watcher factors in some or all of the above motivations, but generally has 1 or 2 more prominent "disciplines" that will dominate their choice. I for example, consider myself to prefer connosieur and attractive reasons to be the primary reasons behind my favorites.

Play it all out and you can figure out what each contestant's strengths and weaknesses are, and how the American public is voting along those lines. Let's look at the top 10 (including the recently departed Lisa).

Chris
Strengths: Attraction, Entertainment, Genre
Weaknesses: None really, but the lower categories would be Connosieur and Moral voters.

Katharine
Strengths: Connoisseur, Attraction, Relational
Weaknesses: Moral, Entertainment

Mandisa
Strength: Connoisseur, Entertainment, Moral
Weaknesses: Attraction, Relational

Elliot
Strengths: Connoiseur, Moral, Genre
Weakness: Entertainment, Attraction

Taylor
Strengths: Entertainment, Relational, Genre
Weaknesses: Attraction, Moral

Kellie
Strengths: Attraction, Relational
Weaknesses: Moral, Connoisseur

Ace
Strengths: Attraction, Genre
Weaknesses: Connoisseur, Moral

Bucky
Strengths: Genre, Moral
Weaknesses: Connoisseur, Entertainment

Lisa
Strengths: Connoisseur, Relational
Weaknesses: Entertainment, Attraction

That's kind of how it breaks down for me. It will be different for every voter. But seeing how I tend to favor Connoissuer and attraction, you could figure out who my choices are.

[jacobrules]

I will post a new thread in the next couple of days explaining all the techniques the show uses to get people to vote for who they want to get through to the next round. I think the show is fixed but not by the voting.
Man, If you promise never to mention this again, I wont laugh at you so hard my stomach hurts!
YEA the whole world it out to FOOL you !
hahahahahaha :eek:

[jacobrules]

Hi Bigd13,

In order to understand why the votes and choices come out the way they do, we need to understand a few things about why people are chosen and the reasons why we vote for them.

The act of singing and witnessing the performance of song can have everything from a mild to powerful effect upon a person. It is well understood that music and song can have a range of responses to those listening. Besides voting for people someone may know or be related to in real life, there are other factors that go into the voting process.

- Some people listen to song and pay close attention to pitch, range, clarity, strength, and ability. These people might be considered "purists" for vocal skills alone. We can call them vocal connosieurs if you like. Connosieurs tend to prefer a performer's ability to handle a range of material and adapt to it, rather than taking liberations to make it their own.

- Other people are relationally affected by song. They want their American Idol to reach them on a personal level, so these voters are paying attention to what identifies with them, and vote accordingly.

- Some people are relationally affected, but only within a certain musical genre. If they like R&B they will vote for R&B singers, if they like country they will vote for country singers. Genre voters can deeply appreciate artistry and taking liberations when a performer uses a particular song.

- Some people vote for attraction. And when I say this- I'm saying vocal AND some type of physical or emotional attraction. They commonly say "This person's voice pierces my soul" or "This person's voice is soothing or sultry." They're enticed by what is attracted to them, and often vocals is simply part of the winning formula.

- Other people vote along moral lines, but don't assume these are always "positive" morals. Maybe they vote for someone because they believe they are the nicest, or they are the underdog. Some negative voters intentionally vote for who they believe to be the worst Idol they can imagine, because that is a moral statement in of itself.

- And finally, some people vote on an entertainment basis. They're not as interested in sheer vocal ability, they want to be entertained by things like fun or exciting song choices, they look for strong showmanship and consider the performance, song selection, and stage presence as a whole.

Generally speaking, your average Idol watcher factors in some or all of the above motivations, but generally has 1 or 2 more prominent "disciplines" that will dominate their choice. I for example, consider myself to prefer connosieur and attractive reasons to be the primary reasons behind my favorites.

Play it all out and you can figure out what each contestant's strengths and weaknesses are, and how the American public is voting along those lines. Let's look at the top 10 (including the recently departed Lisa).

Chris
Strengths: Attraction, Entertainment, Genre
Weaknesses: None really, but the lower categories would be Connosieur and Moral voters.

Katharine
Strengths: Connoisseur, Attraction, Relational
Weaknesses: Moral, Entertainment

Mandisa
Strength: Connoisseur, Entertainment, Moral
Weaknesses: Attraction, Relational

Elliot
Strengths: Connoiseur, Moral, Genre
Weakness: Entertainment, Attraction

Taylor
Strengths: Entertainment, Relational, Genre
Weaknesses: Attraction, Moral

Kellie
Strengths: Attraction, Relational
Weaknesses: Moral, Connoisseur

Ace
Strengths: Attraction, Genre
Weaknesses: Connoisseur, Moral

Bucky
Strengths: Genre, Moral
Weaknesses: Connoisseur, Entertainment

Lisa
Strengths: Connoisseur, Relational
Weaknesses: Entertainment, Attraction

That's kind of how it breaks down for me. It will be different for every voter. But seeing how I tend to favor Connoissuer and attraction, you could figure out who my choices are.
OR Some People just use plain old common sense, like a thread I just saw,
Who's CD would I buy........... Kellie Chris and Ace's!
So thats where my votes go.

[Ciuma]

Ah, SoS, you are so much better than I at journalistic writing (I should assume you're not a journalist because if you were, you'd be getting this stuff published). :P Very well written and thought out. Reminds me of those RPG character race descriptions. Connoisseur is definitely at the top of my list, but not sure which one is next. Guess I'll say "attraction" since you speak of vocal and "emotional attraction."

[itsmejackie]

Ah, SoS, you are so much better than I at journalistic writing (I should assume you're not a journalist because if you were, you'd be getting this stuff published). :P Very well written and thought out. Reminds me of those RPG character race descriptions. Connoisseur is definitely at the top of my list, but not sure which one is next. Guess I'll say "attraction" since you speak of vocal and "emotional attraction."
You kinda sound like you are swooning!? :love:

[Ciuma]

Ummm.... no? :P Emotional attraction does not mean I have a crush. And I'm not sure why you say that anyway.

[itsmejackie]

Ummm.... no? :P Emotional attraction does not mean I have a crush. And I'm not sure why you say that anyway.
Oh NO! Not the words emotional attraction, nor any particular words.
Just the flattery seems a bit overboard.

[Ciuma]

You mean to SoS? Okay... Whatever... That's not even close to overboard for me. LOL

[Son of Simon]

OR Some People just use plain old common sense, like a thread I just saw,
Who's CD would I buy........... Kellie Chris and Ace's!
So thats where my votes go.

I'll just put you down for entertainment and attaction, ok? ;)

Not everyone is aware of the mental process they go through to make a decision, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen in one way shape or form.

[itsmejackie]

I am sorry but that is VERY lame.
If its not common sense that everyone likes different things about a contestant I give up!
Everyone knows that people base their opinion on what they like as an individual.
Sure people go through a mental process, but for most, it comes naturally. No big thought process involved.
From reading your posts i think you over analyze quite a bit.

[Son of Simon]

I am sorry but that is VERY lame.
If its not common sense that everyone likes different things about a contestant I give up!
Everyone knows that people base their opinion on what they like as an individual.
Sure people go through a mental process, but for most, it comes naturally. No big thought process involved.
From reading your posts i think you over analyze quite a bit.

You can call it "common sense" you can call it "gut instinct" or you can even use "random chance", it doesn't make a difference. Everyone goes through some sort of system to make their decisions. What you are arguing is simply the semantics.

There are other people who do look a bit deeper into why things happen the way they do. It doesn't make it wrong, it's just a more systematic way of understanding something.

[Ciuma]

Oh, those pesky semantics. Who shall we blame? Language teachers? Writers?

SoS, I really think you should publish this or something. I find myself trying to find something to do with it...

[Son of Simon]

We can always make it a poll. People can post what factors into their voting decisions.

Thoughts?

[itsmejackie]

I'll just put you down for entertainment and attaction, ok? ;)

Not everyone is aware of the mental process they go through to make a decision, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen in one way shape or form.
What im trying to say is PEOPLE DO KNOW THERE IS A THOUGHT PROCESS.
They all know they have one, no offense, BUT you didnt need to tell us YOURS.
But its OK you did, just a reminder we can base our opinions on diff things not just your list.
For example, I have heard that just because I dont really care for Katharine I must be jealous. That is obsurd. The person who wrote that probably is the only one in the free world that does NOT know we all have a different thought process!

[itsmejackie]

SOS Tell me about yourself married?
age?
children?
kind of work?
Just curious

[Son of Simon]

What im trying to say is PEOPLE DO KNOW THERE IS A THOUGHT PROCESS.
They all know they have one, no offense, BUT you didnt need to tell us YOURS.


Just like you have the choice not to read my posts. See how it works? ;)


But its OK you did, just a reminder we can base our opinions on diff things not just your list.
For example, I have heard that just because I dont really care for Katharine I must be jealous. That is obsurd. The person who wrote that probably is the only one in the free world that does NOT know we all have a different thought process!

Of course we all have different thought processes. I wouldn't dare make the claim that my list is all-inclusive, but I think a nailed some of the more major reasons.

And if you wanna know mroe about me and my life, you might try looking into my other posts. But since you seem to hate reading them- maybe you shouldn't.

[itsmejackie]

Just like you have the choice not to read my posts. See how it works? ;)



Of course we all have different thought processes. I wouldn't dare make the claim that my list is all-inclusive, but I think a nailed some of the more major reasons.

And if you wanna know mroe about me and my life, you might try looking into my other posts. But since you seem to hate reading them- maybe you shouldn't.
Dont be ugly Son , I never said I hated reading them.

[Ciuma]

We can always make it a poll. People can post what factors into their voting decisions.

Thoughts?

That just might work. :) Let's try it. I might even invite some people from other sites.

De fapt, eu SUNT ciuma!

[sydneylovesace]

SOS you do have an interesting point of view!
I am an ACE fan but cant help it! LOL

[cloie4me]

Cloie's voting decisions..
Passion. Anyone who is able to stir up deep emotion in me. Whether it is an inspirational feeling, happiness, saddness or so on. Anyone who can move me in song has my vote.

[Son of Simon]

Dont be ugly Son , I never said I hated reading them.

I apologize if it came off that way. I admit I felt that your questions about my personal life were perhaps made not with the best intentions.

Me: Not married, but in a very serious relationship (looking for that PERFECT ring!). Love my girlfriend more than ANYTHING in the whole world (especailly since she has to put up with my incessant commentaries...poor girl...)

No kids, just about to enter "middle-age." They say your 30's are the new 20's you know. :)

I work in the science/techincal field (wow- shocker...LOL) and I manage a group of technicians and chemists. It's a great job that makes use of my ability to dissect and analyze, while the manager aspect of it allows me to keep the "big picture" in mind.

I enjoy my share of everything from sports to dancing and creative writing. I have been told several times throughout my life that I should be a writer. And one day I might just do it.

But bottom line- I'm just a guy with an opinion and the painful ability to share it. ;)