The De Vinci Code

[aztecgoods]

Has anybody read this book and/or saw the movie? I was pretty amazed how much the movie followed the book. The book doesn't seem to be much different at all. Although I still have about 75 pages left to go on the book. I love treasure hunt themes which is pretty much what that was. What does anybody think about the whole Mary Mag thing and the whole secret order passing down the secret. The book almost makes you believe it all, but I don't. It doesn't offend my religious beliefs or anything, the book doesn't hold itself out to be true or anything, I wasn't sure what the big fuss was over something that says up front its fiction. Its a pretty good story for entertainment purposes if you ask me though.

Oh and what did anyone think about the whole "orgy" thing that the movie kinda glanced over. In the book she walks in on grandpa doing the ritual that the Tom Hanks character explains to her in the book is not really about sex and is not really an orgy but a legitimate celebration of the females ability to have children or something like that. And its an ancient ritual going back for thousands of years. It also mentions that this was what was going on in the Tom Cruise movie Eyes Wide Shut. Looks like a regular orgy to me. Has anybody checked this out or seen it, or know of a secret society that actually does this? Weird wild stuff.

[RushDog]

Az,
The DaVinci Code is complete bull$hit. But that's just my humble opinion. If you have any questions about the DaVinci Code, here are a couple sites you can go into.

http://www.ccwonline.org/dvfaq.html

http://www.thetruthaboutdavinci.com

[aztecgoods]

Az,
The DaVinci Code is complete bull$hit. But that's just my humble opinion. If you have any questions about the DaVinci Code, here are a couple sites you can go into.

http://www.ccwonline.org/dvfaq.html

http://www.thetruthaboutdavinci.com

Well like I said I don't think the Author was trying to hold it out as true or anything, its all fiction.

[X1TX]

Well like I said I don't think the Author was trying to hold it out as true or anything, its all fiction.

Not entirely. Dan Brown claims certain items to be 'facts' that are known to be untrue. There are/were documents in the Paris archives describing the existence of the Priory of Scion. But those were proven to be fakes many years before Brown wrote his book. The 'vote' at the Council of Nicea (that the Teabing character says was 'close') was 298 to 12. Not close in my opinion. There are many other things that refute items he claims to be factual.

But I agree that if you're looking for eternal truth one shouldn't go searching in the 'fiction' section. Only problem is that since he claims certain items in the book are 'facts' (when they are not) that people believe the book contains truths.

[aztecgoods]

I caught a documentary about this this weekend and it seems that there is a lot more about it that is fiction than I initially thought, seems even the Priory of Sion was all a hoax, founders admitted it, so it seems almost 100% of it is fiction, very little foundation of fact if any. I was originally under the impression that some things may be true like the Priory of Sion being a real organization etc., but its not. The founder admitted it was a hoax to try and link him to one of the royal families of France or something like that. Apparently it got out by mistake that he was claiming he was descended from Jesus, that is when he went public and admitted it was all a hoax, and he certainly wasn't claiming any relation to Jesus etc., but seems as if just about all of it is fiction, if not all. Not that I was under any impression that very much of it was true to begin with. But it is fairly interesting fiction. Not sure what all the author is claiming to be true, but it would only be very superficial stuff. Certainly none of the big subjects of the book.

[Feisty Kitty]

Ahhhh, the Da Vinci Code! I still haven't seen the movie, but I loved the book. However, it is only fiction, fiction based on actual theories, although most of these theories have already been disproven. The is a great documentary that you can rent called The Da Vinci Inquest (I think) which goes through the book and systematically argues each part of the book.
Unfortunatly, it has been about two year since i read the book, and some of the parts ar hazy, but I do remember thinking that some of the ideas presented in the book seemed REALLY far fetched, and clearly went against other things that I had read that seemed more credible. It was an exciting book, one that I greatly enjoyed, and it did make me think, especially about Leonardo's work. That person in The Last Supper REALLY does look like a woman! However, the idea that Jesus could have had a child that NO ONE EVER KNEW ABOUT! Come on!
If you enjoyed the book, you should read Angels and Demons, which Brown wrote before DVC. He refers to it a lot in DVC. It is much better, in my opinion, and more based in reality, although it does somewhat challenge the conventions and motivations of the church. I gotta appreciate that! :laugh:
And Aztec, shame on you for seeing the movie before reading the book!

[aztecgoods]

Ahhhh, the Da Vinci Code! I still haven't seen the movie, but I loved the book. However, it is only fiction, fiction based on actual theories, although most of these theories have already been disproven. The is a great documentary that you can rent called The Da Vinci Inquest (I think) which goes through the book and systematically argues each part of the book.
Unfortunatly, it has been about two year since i read the book, and some of the parts ar hazy, but I do remember thinking that some of the ideas presented in the book seemed REALLY far fetched, and clearly went against other things that I had read that seemed more credible. It was an exciting book, one that I greatly enjoyed, and it did make me think, especially about Leonardo's work. That person in The Last Supper REALLY does look like a woman! However, the idea that Jesus could have had a child that NO ONE EVER KNEW ABOUT! Come on!
If you enjoyed the book, you should read Angels and Demons, which Brown wrote before DVC. He refers to it a lot in DVC. It is much better, in my opinion, and more based in reality, although it does somewhat challenge the conventions and motivations of the church. I gotta appreciate that! :laugh:
And Aztec, shame on you for seeing the movie before reading the book!

Yeah I normally do it backwards from most people, I usually catch the film first and if it is good I may get the book, don't have time to read that much so only read a few books a year, usually get them for when I'm going to be in airports a lot for a few days, read on the plane etc., to the film makers credit, I don't think they could have done a much better job, the film is almost exactly like the book. Don't know if you would consider that a good or a bad thing. But I really liked the movie.

That Angels and Demons book sounds really interesting though, is it about theories about them and God kicking demons out of heaven etc., or is it something totally different?

[X1TX]

Ahhhh, the Da Vinci Code! I still haven't seen the movie, but I loved the book. However, it is only fiction, fiction based on actual theories, although most of these theories have already been disproven.

And many of those theories were espoused by folks who wear tin-foil hats...:eek:

And as far as John being portrayed as femenine, many of Da Vinci's contemporaries did much the same as John was traditionally the youngest of the apostles. But even Leonardo (and I'm not referring to DiCaprio or the Ninja Turtle here) in his own writings said this was John, not a woman.

[aztecgoods]

Even if it was a woman it doesn't matter any, its not like Da Vinci was actually there at the last supper and was painting how it actually looked. I heard that he painted the person real feminine possibly because he was gay and liked femine looking males. Reading a whole conspiracy into the painting makes for interesting fiction but that's all it is, fiction. No one answered my question about the orgy scene. Fiesty you know anything about that? (The ritual thing from the book, just curious.)

[Feisty Kitty]

Even if it was a woman it doesn't matter any, its not like Da Vinci was actually there at the last supper and was painting how it actually looked. I heard that he painted the person real feminine possibly because he was gay and liked femine looking males. Reading a whole conspiracy into the painting makes for interesting fiction but that's all it is, fiction. No one answered my question about the orgy scene. Fiesty you know anything about that? (The ritual thing from the book, just curious.)

Yes, Da Vinci did paint quite a bit of angrogynous looking people, and there are soooooooooooooo many theories there too, mostly created by art historians. Sometimes all of these new theories start to piss me off. I abhor people who adher only to one truth and refuse to ever look at other views. However, I also abhor people who take something that has been studied to death, (like say, the paintings of Leo Da Vinci and the Holy Grail) and create a ginormous, completely far-fetched theory in order to make a place for themselves in the literary world. When I was in college, the big thing was, what i fondly refered to as "Queer Theory". Suddenly, every single writer in every single class was gay, and there was all of this crazy evidence to back it up. Well, I thought that it seemed strange that EVERYONE was gay, and
most of the evidence was shaky at best, and completely preposterous at other times, yet many of my professors thought that they were totally ingenious for revealing this new theory. Dan Brown has actually stated publicly that he does believe this theory.

As far as the orgy, I don't really remember too much about that part, but yes, that kind of 'religious' worship does have a huge place in pagan religions. The solscist (spell?) the birth/ death celebrations which correllate to the seasons, were part of all religions, back to Mesopotamia, Sumeria, Ancient Greece and Rome. Sex is a big part of pagan faith, and many religious scholars see a direct correllation between the Christian church's attempt to quell and control sexuality with its attempts to overthrow pagan faiths in conquered societies. The study of the "sacred feminine" is very wrapped up in sexuality, as much of a woman's strength is wrapped up in her sexuality and power of motherhood. This is a topic that you could google and learn quite a bit about.

As far as Angel and Demons, I don't want to spoil it, but it is also fast paced, deals with the Catholic religion, but the Angels and Demons are figurative, in that they are metaphors for characters in the book. I liked it so much more than Da Vinci Code.

Happy reading!:beerchug:

[aztecgoods]

Thanks, I'll have to check that one out, Dan Brown reminds me a little of Michael Crighton's style. I like that techno thriller thing.

[Feisty Kitty]

Az,
The DaVinci Code is complete bull$hit. But that's just my humble opinion. If you have any questions about the DaVinci Code, here are a couple sites you can go into.

http://www.ccwonline.org/dvfaq.html

http://www.thetruthaboutdavinci.com

Hey Rush,

I went on the sites you posted, out of curiosity and my devotion to the quest for knowledge. Interesting stuff, and yes, I tend to agree with you on this one. What I was so stuck with, however, is the fact that, even in the face of such strong counter evidence, the church and church based states STILL ban both book and movie. When people ban things, it makes me want to understand them even more. Knowledge is power. I am glad that I read the Da Vinci Code. I enjoyed it, tossed the ideas around, discussed them with two of my book clubs, and came to the conclusion that, although it was a great theory, I have read too many things that contradict it to buy into it. Why does the church and, in some cases, the state, have so little faith in the intelligence of it's people? Perhaps if they spent a bit more time encouraging the personal education of the 'flock' they could spend less time hiding all of the things they deem wrong. Just a thought.

[aztecgoods]

Hey Rush,

I went on the sites you posted, out of curiosity and my devotion to the quest for knowledge. Interesting stuff, and yes, I tend to agree with you on this one. What I was so stuck with, however, is the fact that, even in the face of such strong counter evidence, the church and church based states STILL ban both book and movie. When people ban things, it makes me want to understand them even more. Knowledge is power. I am glad that I read the Da Vinci Code. I enjoyed it, tossed the ideas around, discussed them with two of my book clubs, and came to the conclusion that, although it was a great theory, I have read too many things that contradict it to buy into it. Why does the church and, in some cases, the state, have so little faith in the intelligence of it's people? Perhaps if they spent a bit more time encouraging the personal education of the 'flock' they could spend less time hiding all of the things they deem wrong. Just a thought.

I am going to probably catch some %$#@ because of this, but it won't be the first time on here. But thought I would just add that your reference to "the Church" I am assuming you mean the Catholic Church, which I must point out many believe is a false religion. I have never found in the Bible where we are supposed to pray to Mary, ask men for forgiveness (Priests) instead of God, and many many other things, that I think are just wrong about that. Many believe that the Catholic church is one of the Roman Emporers attempts to mold the old pagan religions with Christianity, which is why they use statues (idols) and have other things that are more linked to ancient pagan religions than Christianity, that a lot of us think is wrong. I will now duck and cover from the Catholics that will probably come after me now. Oh and I should add that some think the reference in Revelations to the Mother of all Harlots is a reference to the Catholic Church.

[RushDog]

Hey Rush,

I went on the sites you posted, out of curiosity and my devotion to the quest for knowledge. Interesting stuff, and yes, I tend to agree with you on this one. What I was so stuck with, however, is the fact that, even in the face of such strong counter evidence, the church and church based states STILL ban both book and movie. When people ban things, it makes me want to understand them even more. Knowledge is power. I am glad that I read the Da Vinci Code. I enjoyed it, tossed the ideas around, discussed them with two of my book clubs, and came to the conclusion that, although it was a great theory, I have read too many things that contradict it to buy into it. Why does the church and, in some cases, the state, have so little faith in the intelligence of it's people? Perhaps if they spent a bit more time encouraging the personal education of the 'flock' they could spend less time hiding all of the things they deem wrong. Just a thought.


I've never believed in banning. Those are just man-made rules that churches try to force on people. There's always that free will thing. I think if you really want something to go away, you just ignore it. Kinda like a rotten tooth. Ignore it, and it'll eventually go away. I think it's gotten way too much publicity. There are people who aren't that intelligent and weak in their faith that aren't able to discern fact from fiction. I think there is just alot of frustration within the Church because it seems like the world is more interested in a book or movie like this as opposed to The Bible or any other Christian based literature. You'll have people that get so caught up in this book, or the so-called "Lost Book of Judas".that have never even read the Bible. My pastor said he'll never watch a Tom Hanks movie again. I don't think I'd go that far. He's put out some pretty good flicks. There are some Baptist churches in our area that went out in groups and saw the movie to compare it to their beliefs and to use it as a topic of discussion in Bible study. I think that's cool. But, when you ban something, that's just going to make them want it more. Like that forbidden fruit thing. I feel that if you are truly saved, that a book like this isn't really going to sway you one way or the other, so I don't think banning is necessary.

[aztecgoods]

I think its pretty silly to ban something like this or "boycott" tom hanks movies or whatever. First of all its FICTION, meaning not-true. Second of all I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the concept of the book in the context of interesting fiction. If someone tried to militantly assert it as a fact, I may have a little more problem with it, but from all the docs I've seen on it, I think it is silly for even the author to think its true. Or even believe his theory, from what I've seen many of the under lying aspects such as the Priory of Sion etc., have been admittted to be fiction/false/hoaxes whatever. Its silly to be afraid of fiction/make-believe or whatever. Also, so what if Jesus was married and had a kid. I don't believe it, but its not like that would change the whole world or anything. I mean marriage is supposed to be what people are supposed to do (besides me) from a religion stand point among other things so its not like it would be inherently contradictory or anything. I think the up-roar over that book is just silly. The Catholics need to be more concerned with the "Beware convicted Child Predator" signs going up in the neighborhoods being Catholic Priests issue, than over a book.

Of course the other theory is that the Catholics are concerned that it will get out that the "holy grail" is actually a huge treasure buried in some catholic church or the vatican or somewhere that the church doesn't want anyone to know about. I think this is another theory I heard on one of the docs about this.

[RushDog]

I'm not Catholic, and I don't agree with alot of the rituals they do. I'm not really going to dog them too much because they have their own way of worshipping God. That's pretty much how I feel about other denominations, such as Pentecostals or "Charasmaniacs", as I like to call them. I don't totally agree with their doctrines, but beneath all their rituals, man-made rules, and hoopla, they pretty much have the basic beliefs that I have, which is Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we could have eternal life. There's so many different doctrines out there that create barriers. It's really a shame.

[aztecgoods]

I'm not Catholic, and I don't agree with alot of the rituals they do. I'm not really going to dog them too much because they have their own way of worshipping God. That's pretty much how I feel about other denominations, such as Pentecostals or "Charasmaniacs", as I like to call them. I don't totally agree with their doctrines, but beneath all their rituals, man-made rules, and hoopla, they pretty much have the basic beliefs that I have, which is Jesus Christ died for our sins so that we could have eternal life. There's so many different doctrines out there that create barriers. It's really a shame.

Yeah theres some stuff about that in the Bible, I am thinking it is one of Paul's books maybe, but where he talks about how the early church was beginning to splinter up into different branches/sects whatever, denominations and how it wasn't cool. But don't get me wrong, just because I don't believe in one form of Christianity doesn't mean I am judging the people like I'm better than they are or something, its just my own personal beliefs. I don't judge anyone. That's for God to do.

[aztecgoods]

But hey, I think we should all get together for a good old fasioned rattle snake handling/dancing party, with some funky cool-aid and strictnine for us all to party on. Just Kidding. (Not that theres anything wrong with that.)

[RushDog]

But hey, I think we should all get together for a good old fasioned rattle snake handling/dancing party, with some funky cool-aid and strictnine for us all to party on. Just Kidding. (Not that theres anything wrong with that.)

Yeah! And let's all move into a big ol' house in Waco!

[aztecgoods]

Yeah we need someone to bring the machine guns and hand grenades though.

[Feisty Kitty]

You guys are funny. Actually, it wasn't just the Catholics that had a hissy about the movie, or just all Christian denominations. It was many countries as well, countries that take issue with anything concerning the Christian religion, even if it is a totally far fetched theory. I just found that interesting, and very sad.

[X1TX]

Yeah! And let's all move into a big ol' house in Waco!

I hear you can get a smokin' deal on it!:jump1:

[Feisty Kitty]

Doesn't that place have fire damage? (teehee)